More closures

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http://dnronline.com/news_details.php?AID=34075&CHID=2

[Ted]

Does anyone ever do any measurements to prove impact? The sum of the evidence is always a picture of some mud.

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Ya know, I've thought of this before for Tellico. Why don't a bunch of 4x4/OHV clubs get together and build small basic bridges over these important waterways. Everyone would be happy and it would be a hell of a positive impact for us. It could be done. We could probably even get support from BRC and Tread Lightly.

[Ted]

Tellio is a true mess. All the trails are basically examples of erosion in action. The biggest issue was the FS not doing trail maintenance over the years. The run up to Guardrail needs water bars. That whole place needs work. Unless someone get funding for these projects, it's never going to happen. Tellio is a done deal, unless the offroads get a good lawyer.

Trout unlimited is suing the FS in Federal court for the violation of the clean water act. I read the compliant, and there is not much that we can defend in court. They even took some sediment samples, which helps makes for a case. It does not matter how many bridges are built, unless the offroaders get a good lawyers to defend our interests, the place is going to be shut down.

There really needs to be a limit on tire size in these parks. The bigger trucks have really tore the place up. The arms race for bigger super tires is going ruin trail access in the end.

Since the best us offroaders can do is have virtual rallies, and sign online petitions, the place is done. Stick a fork in it.

Now you have people wanting the GWNF to close some trails bases on pictures of mud. There is no science to back these claims. If the trails are on public land, you can get a good lawyer to keep the trails open. But, is it worth the money to fight keeping these trails open?

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Tellio is a done deal, unless the offroads get a good lawyer.

Isn't why the OHV community donates to BRC and Tread Lightly? The the big guy on the block to fight our fight. Kinda and I say kinda like the NRA.


There really needs to be a limit on tire size in these parks. The bigger trucks have really tore the place up. The arms race for bigger super tires is going ruin trail access in the end.


Agree'd.

[Ted]

Isn't why the OHV community donates to BRC and Tread Lightly? The the big guy on the block to fight our fight. Kinda and I say kinda like the NRA.



Agree'd.

Here is the reality of what we fight. Go read the latest BRC mag. It tells you that environmental groups have a lot of money. Plus, the have more members. It's an up hill fight.

This is going to make private parks more important in the future.

[RedTrooper]

Here is the reality of what we fight. Go read the latest BRC mag. It tells you that environmental groups have a lot of money. Plus, the have more members. It's an up hill fight.

This is going to make private parks more important in the future.
Don't forget, many environmental groups get public funding so some of our taxes are actually used against us.

[94krawler]

There really needs to be a limit on tire size in these parks. The bigger trucks have really tore the place up. The arms race for bigger super tires is going ruin trail access in the end.

That really isnt a issue and a ignorant ass comment. Someone with bigger tires might roll over something a smaller tire wouldnt. Whos doing the damage now? The guy that drove over something with 40inch tires and didnt spin the tires at all or the guy tearing the hell out of the ground and digging holes spinning his 33's? :rolleyes: It works both ways, I figured you of all people would understand that.


We all know as long as people wheel land is going to get worn down, tree's will get hit accidently, ruts will be made ect. It dont matter if its a public ORV park or state property.


As far as Tellico goes.. Once I went there I was able to understand how bad that place is. It didnt get that way over night. I went through easy trails there where my tire hung over the edge of a drop due to erosion. Some simple trail maint BEFORE the trails were that bad would have helped.... Good luck fixing it now though.

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Someone with bigger tires might roll over something a smaller tire wouldnt. Whos doing the damage now? The guy that drove over something with 40inch tires and didnt spin the tires at all or the guy tearing the hell out of the ground and digging holes spinning his 33's?

Now see this makes sense as well but it's not always going to be the case. When Ted first said that, I immediatly pictured some garage created buggie thing on 1 tons, 42's, and a big-ass V8 ripping up earth. But yeah Eric, I can see your argument too, good point.

[94krawler]

Now see this makes sense as well but it's not always going to be the case. When Ted first said that, I immediatly pictured some garage created buggie thing on 1 tons, 42's, and a big-ass V8 ripping up earth. But yeah Eric, I can see your argument too, good point.


Its never going to always be the case. Its a double edge sword both tear stuff up is the bottom line. Wheelers being more responsable is the start not limiting tire size.


I have friends that legaly DD rigs on tons and 40's with smallblocks that usually you cant tell where they have been. I also see people with smaller rigs tearing the hell out of stuff trying to make it.

[PrezidentRedz]

yeah its a mess, We just need to come together to educate other Wheelers!!!

[Ted]

Don't forget, many environmental groups get public funding so some of our taxes are actually used against us.

I got to find that list of how much each group has in funds. They can really out spend us.

[RedTrooper]

I got to find that list of how much each group has in funds. They can really out spend us.

That is why a trail clean up/maintenance event is a good idea. It demonstrates that the off-road community isn't just a bunch of yahoos tearing up the place.

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There's a major clean up going on in March,

http://va4x4.com/df/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3003

[RedTrooper]

There's a major clean up going on in March,

http://va4x4.com/df/index.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=3003

The link is for members only. Maybe you can post the info in the events section?

[Ted]

That really isnt a issue and a ignorant ass comment..

No it is, I've seen what has happen to places like Tellico. It's not the guys on 32's making the big giant ruts.

[94krawler]

No it is, I've seen what has happen to places like Tellico. It's not the guys on 32's making the big giant ruts.

Your right, I'm wrong whatever Ted:rolleyes: I watched it at tellico and other places, some guys cruise along with bigger tires other guys spinning like crazy to get through. Common sight on stuff like trail 4 at tellico, all the climbs out of the play area at PAP before it closed and traill 11 at RC down at the far corner. Its not the tires its how the people drive. I've seen asshats abusing the throttle with little 10 inch wide tires tear the hell out of stuff and make ruts right away. Now run 100 guys like that through there... You got ruts that start getting big dam fast. Maybe your blind I'm not:rolleyes:


Fact of the matter. You will NEVER stop the effects of vehicles being driven offroad. They will affect the land after a time. It dont matter the tire size its going to happen. People that dont respect the land and abuse the throttle when they cant make it will tear it up regardless of tire size.